BREAKING: Another Former DNC Chair, Paul Kirk, Endorsing Obama Today

The Super-delegate news of the day begins with a bang for Obama, who picks up his second former DNC chair in two days:

From ABC's The Note:

Speaking of math -- the Obama campaign rolls out another former DNC chairman's endorsement on Friday: Paul Kirk, a superdelegate who led the party from 1985-1989, is coming out for Obama -- a day after Andrew's switch, an Obama campaign official tells The Note. (And don't count on that being it for the day, as the dribble continues.)

Another big win in the ongoing media narrative for Obama.

UPDATE:  WOW!  Thanks everyone.  I posted the diary, put my kids on the bus to school, and came back to find my post on the recommended list!!!  My first time!

Also, I fixed the ABC link.  I'm not so hot at the techie stuff.

•  Tip jar

  by ILPundit on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:37:21 AM PDT

  •  time for the Supers to stampede for Obama

    Otherwise they are essentially encouraging Hillary to continue her divisive campaign.

    Speak up, super delegates!  Choose the real democrat in the race, end the 20 year reign of bushes and clinton.

    by MD patriot on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:42:49 AM PDT

    •  Not a good idea

      we need a steady drip instead. A wave will give the Hillary base a conspiracy complex. They are doing it...how did Hillary put it with her Goldielocks analogy..."just right"

      by KingGeorgetheTurd on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:49:16 AM PDT

      •  I agree. Slow & steady

        Wins the "Race".

        by amk for obama on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:58:52 AM PDT

        •  War of Attrition now, Drips better eom

          by jhpdb on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:08:56 AM PDT

          •  Ts' begining - to- look - alot - like - christmas

            and its not Dec Nov yet. The fat lady is checking everything and just begining to enter the arena. Annie, let go huntin, shall we?

            by HEAT on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:29:15 AM PDT

            •  Kirk is Not a new Superdelegate ~ Pls Delete This

              Please Delete

              Politico

              UPDATE: Avi tells me (as the campaign acknowledged in its release) that we've been counting Kirk as an Obama supporter for quite a while.

              Ambinder

              UPDATE: Apparently, Kirk has been a supporter of Obama's for a while. So this isn't so much new as it is an attempt to perpetuate the idea of momentum .

              by Steven R on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:10:27 AM PDT

          •  prefer the drops

            by Christian Coulon on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:37:47 AM PDT

            •  Yep...

              water torture gets 'em every time. Drip. Drip. Drip.

              by mayan on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:50:03 AM PDT

            •  O.K.

              drip

              drop, drip, drop, drip, drop, drip, drop, drip, drop, drip, drop, drip, drop, drip, drop, drip, drop, drip, drop, drip, drop, drip, drop, drip, drop, drip, drop, drip, drop, drip, drop, drip, drop, drip, drop, drip, drop, drip, drop, drip, drop, drip

              drop

              by Kdoug on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:50:22 AM PDT

              •  Obama's web site claims 253 supers!

                I haven't seen such a high count anywhere else. Does anybody have an explanation?

                Here's the link.

                by yaddab on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:21:44 AM PDT

                •  drip, drop, drip, drop, drip, drop, drip, drop ..

                  GUSH!

                  by Kdoug on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:03:59 AM PDT

                •  The new Illinois delegates aren't...

                  endorsing officially until next week.

                  That may explain the discrepancy.

                  by llthomps on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:51:52 AM PDT

          •  The real problem is:

            The majority of the Super Delegates are beltway insiders.  Because they are political hacks and have little integrity they will wait until the very last minute and go with the one whom they perceive to be the winner.

            by calibpatriot on Fri May 02, 2008 at 01:45:33 PM PDT

        •  I don't. It's time to end this

          Yes, it will rankle some HRC supporters, but this needs to end ASAP. HRC is staying alive by cannibalizing our hopes in November, and Obama needs to be achieve the delegate majority soon. Then, he can  try to heal the wounds of this ugly (thanks, Clintons) primary season.

          by Imipolex on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:42:27 AM PDT

          •  Can she really complain

            when she had that big surge even before the primaries?  Yeah, I know that wouldn't stop her, but it is hard to complain now when she got this big head start.

            by Nailbanger on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:56:43 AM PDT

            •  Of course she can. She left off having anything

              to do with reality months ago.

              The Clintons are, and always have been, shamless about such things.

              by Fonsia on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:17:52 AM PDT

              •  asdf

                So why bother trying to placate them? If they have lost touch with reality, why plan your strategy around making them happy?

                by heliosfootball on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:47:53 AM PDT

          •  You're right that THIS long primary is bad

            for November. If both were running on their own strength it wouldn't really matter.

            But when the one who has almost no chance to be the nominee takes her only chance by creating an image of the probable nominee...as an unqualified, pretty worded empty suit whose words are only lies, who hangs around with angry black racists who hate America, boogies with Hamas and Farrakhan, 9/11 and terrorists and is a maybe Muslim as far as she might not know who is trying to dupe the people to not let the qualified patriotic, hard working wonderful people like her and McCain save America...

            Well that becomes a problem. It would never have run so long for anyone not Clinton. She wanted time... The kitchen sink was not enough to stop him but she felt it was important America get to see what he looks like when she starts throwing the toilet.

            by joynow on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:47:17 AM PDT

          •  Agreed! Enough of the hand-wringing, worrying

            about what people (who don't think clearly to start with) will think!

            by elwior on Fri May 02, 2008 at 11:28:39 AM PDT

        •  I don't care..

          ...if they're wrapped in rafia. As long as they come out for Barack!

          by MichaelPH on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:40:06 AM PDT

      •  Also, if the Supers stampede now, the coverage

        could get largely swallowed up by the results of next week's primaries (and whatever new Wright coverage someone digs up). If they keep coming in steadily, they will keep getting coverage.

        The chance of Hillary quitting in May is small. What we want is to achieve a strong sense of consensus by late May, so that it's clear Barack is really the inevitable candidate.

        by Brecht on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:02:41 AM PDT

        •  I agree with you

          Plus, Hillary is already starting to say that she will stay in the race even if she loses NC and Indiana. (although, Indiana could very well swing her way)

          I think the best case scenario at this point is that she drops out after the last primary in early June with pressure from the party.

          by bleigh82 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:21:16 AM PDT

          •  UGH!!! How sad & pathetic. eom

            by hester on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:25:21 AM PDT

          •  Funn how he "can't close" on someone who

            never had any intention of leaving this race.  Makes it sort of impossible to close on somebody that stubborn and ridiculous.

            I think the only people who thought we could end this on May 6th were Obama supporters and the MSM.  Unfortunately, she has other plans.

            by krwlngwthyou on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:55:28 AM PDT

            •  I would qualify that statement.

              Instead of 'Obama supporters' I would say 'Obama supporters who still believe she has a shred of integrity'.

              by GMFORD on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:41:36 AM PDT

              •  fair enough. n/t

                by krwlngwthyou on Fri May 02, 2008 at 12:54:36 PM PDT

            •  What I dont understand is

              that team Hillz keeps saying "But he can't close the deal!" and nobody points out that neither can she.

              by tjqhzonff on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:34:13 AM PDT

            •  Hillary's campaign strategy

              at this point seems to be:
              "As long as we never end it, I'll never be defeated."

              Remind anyone of Bush's Iraq policy?

              by NMDad on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:14:36 AM PDT

            •  I don't see HER closing any deals!

              by elwior on Fri May 02, 2008 at 11:30:23 AM PDT

        •  Voters should put him over the top

          I think he should keep dripping supers out so that the voters on June 3 will put him at the 2025 and the MSM will call him the presumptive nominee, he can have the optics of the celebration, etc. Better in the long run to underline the voters' role, not the SDs

          by MomDem on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:07:08 AM PDT

      •  :( but it would be So satisfying! nt

        by erin r on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:02:50 AM PDT

      •  And timing the drip to counter distractions

        is the way to go.

        The release of several major recent endorsements is either a great acccident
        or brilliant strategy, and from all I've seen there's only one effective strategist
        in the headlines.

        by Creosote on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:08:42 AM PDT

      •  Hillary will have a Consipracy Complex

        No matter what, Hillary will continue to have a conspiracy complex.

        Obama needs the momentum right now. It's not a conspiracy -- it is a movement.

        by Bronxist on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:20:56 AM PDT

      •  well, this isn't necessarily a wave. I feel

        like a wave is 30 supers at once, coming out together.

        1-5 a day isn't really a wave, I don't think.

        I like the steady drip drip.

        by krwlngwthyou on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:53:16 AM PDT

        •  That's why she's a fighter

          When there's an enemy in every closet and under every bed, you need to be a non-stop fighter.

          by Heart of the Rockies on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:24:26 AM PDT

          •  Whew. Just checked

            my closets and beds. All clear. She can quit now.

            by NMDad on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:16:21 AM PDT

            •  no - every bed and every closet

              by JVolvo on Fri May 02, 2008 at 11:22:01 AM PDT

      •  Clinton 'Goldie Locks" analogy

        demonstrates she knows her campaign is just a fairy tale--she knows she's telling one 'bed time' story!

        by Wary on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:55:17 AM PDT

        •  Hey, wasn't Goldilocks a really obnoxious

           Home Invader, who showed no regard for others' food and personal things?

          by elwior on Fri May 02, 2008 at 11:33:54 AM PDT

      •  A trickle to narrow the gap...

        and then let the voters put him over the top!

        by TexasLiz on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:36:20 AM PDT

    •  sends a message

      I hope that he is as strident in his message as Andrew, who basically explained that at this point, a vote for Hillary is a vote to help McCain.  The supers are Democratic Party leaders, so they need to put the party's best interests first.  Its clearly in the best interest of Democrats to end this divisive campaign and stop Hillary from continuing to help McCain.

      by WahooMatt on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:55:48 AM PDT

      •  Andrew's strongest point was how like McCain

        the Clinton's have become with their campaign tactics:

        "My endorsement of Senator Obama will not be welcome news to my friends and family at the Clinton campaign. If the campaign's surrogates called Governor Bill Richardson, a respected former member of President Clinton's cabinet, a "Judas" for endorsing Senator Obama, we can all imagine how they will treat somebody like me. They are the best practitioners of the old politics, so they will no doubt call me a traitor, an opportunist and a hypocrite. I will be branded as disloyal, power-hungry, but most importantly,they will use the exact words that Republicans used to attack me when I was defending President Clinton."

        by Brecht on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:19:22 AM PDT

      •  Joe Andrew's letter to other superdelegates

        is here.  All of it is amazing, but especially this part regarding the expected attacks from Clinton's campaign surrogates:

        When they use the same attacks made on me when I was defending them, they prove the callow hypocrisy of the old politics first perfected by Republicans.  I am an expert on this because these were the exact tools that I mastered as a campaign volunteer, a campaign manager, a State Party Chair and the National Chair of our Party.  I learned the lessons of the tough, right-wing Republicans all too well.  I can speak with authority on how to spar with everyone from Lee Atwater to Karl Rove.  I understand that, while wrong and pernicious, shallow victory can be achieved through division by semantics and obfuscation. Like many, I succumbed to the addiction of old politics because they are so easy.

        Innuendo is easy. The truth is hard.

        Sound bites are easy. Solutions are hard.

        Spin is simple and easy.  Struggling with facts is complicated and hard.

        I have learned the hard way that you can love the candidate and hate the campaign.  My stomach churns when I think how my old friends in the Clinton campaign will just pick up the old silly Republican play book and call in the same old artificial attacks and bombardments we have all heard before.

        by ybruti on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:26:27 AM PDT

        •  exactly

          That is exactly the kind of message we need to hear out of Obama's superdelegates and his existing endorsers.  John Kerry knows first hand what it means to be swiftboated.  Bill Richardson knows the vindictive wrath of a Clinton scorned.  Anyone with a brain can see that the Clintons are running a nasty, Rove style campaign.  Its time for the leaders to show some leadership and stand up for Barack Obama.

          by WahooMatt on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:30:44 AM PDT

    •  NO NO NO NO NO I want to be in the scenario

      where the remaining supers wouldn't change the outcome. This can happen when this drip drip pace continues to the last point where he hits the magic number AND still  the cling-ons fighting like the zombies dragging their half dead body and come at you...like in the movies. lol ok sry couldn't resist that one. I know its difficult but I would soooo much LOVE that if it could happen.

      by HEAT on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:39:28 AM PDT

      •  In this case the dead body is dragging the

        zombies running her campaign along with her.

        I can't wait for the may 15th revelation of her finances and her supposedly $10 million day.

        sam hussein dobermann

        by samddobermann on Sat May 03, 2008 at 02:04:01 AM PDT

    •  A stampede

      would relieve my extreme anxiety, but a drip, drip is probably a better way to go, for reasons people have given in other comments.

      by Heart of the Rockies on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:22:30 AM PDT

    •  Actually, I'm not sure I like this slow drip of

      poohbahs.  I mean, Paul Kirk's endorsement frankly makes me teeth hurt, because he is co-chair of the abysmal Commission on Presidential Debates.  Pound for pound, he is one of the Party's true scoundrels.  In my fantasy life, in fact, I'd like to see Obama reject Paul Kirk's endorsement.

      What occurs to me this morning is that when one or two party apparatchiks endorses Obama each day, this may feed a narrative of elites annointing Obama, rather than princes and princesses demonstrating support.  Each and every super is, in fact, part and parcel of the elite power structure.  Paul Kirk, for his part, oozes elite.  From every pore.

      I still think we should be agitating mightily for "the dam break".  The narrative of ten supers breaking at at time serves to maintain their identity as supers and subservient to the goal of nominating a president.  The narrative of individuals supers breaking, one at a time, opens them up to identification and vetting.  The more the public gets to know some of these people, the less they'll value their support of Obama.

      by Mogolori on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:42:18 AM PDT

    •  Wait so does this mean

      the only former DNC chair supporting Clinton is the one on her payroll?  (Terry McAuliffe)

      by deaniac83 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:03:01 AM PDT

  •  ILPundit, did you mean ABC? n/t

    by nklein on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:50:16 AM PDT

    •  Somehow ABS seems more fitting

      ....Now whenever when I see "ABC News" I will be thinking "ABS".

      by crystal eyes on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:55:01 AM PDT

      •  thinking All Bull what? lol eom

        by jhpdb on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:06:53 AM PDT

        •   "clown hall" meeting

          The ABC softball fest where Hillary and George on the eve of the primaries are  pretending that they are not lifelong friends.

          Typos for truth

          by crystal eyes on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:18:36 AM PDT

          •  "clown hall"--very appropo!!

            by olive and black on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:38:23 AM PDT

    •  I did, fixed

      by ILPundit on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:10:44 AM PDT

    •  ABS-CBN?

      madali ipagkamali sa gawin. ako hapunan america pulitika does tumingin maibigan Filipino pulitika laling marami at laling marami tesis days.

      by Cletus from Canuckistan on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:23:17 AM PDT

    •  ABS is a kind of plastic

      How fitting!

      by Heart of the Rockies on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:26:25 AM PDT

  •  Great way to start the morning! n/t

    by Kelly of PA on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:54:20 AM PDT

  •  updated the scorecard

    Link here.

    Among declared superdelegates, Clinton leads 269-253. This includes add-on delegates that have declared but have not officially been made delegates, a difference from the DemConWatch count.

    Adding Pelosi Club supers (+6 Obama, - 1 Clinton) and a pessimistic projection for the final add-ons (Obama 25 - Clinton 22), this puts the total superdelegate count at Clinton 290 - Obama 284.

    by CaptUnderpants on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:31:47 AM PDT

•  Woohoo!

  Dripitty drip drip!

  by jenontheshore on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:37:34 AM PDT

  •  Also...

    Folks, if you are bummed out about the media siege...pick up the phone and call Indiana and North Carolina. Even if you only make 20 calls, and convince only one person to vote. We only have 4 more days to go.

    by jenontheshore on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:46:14 AM PDT

    •  Phonebank from home!

      This is fun when you get a small group together.  Even 90 minutes helps.

      http://my.barackobama.com/...

      or follow links from http://www.barackobama.com

      Note that there is an on-line tutorial, tips, and special focussed calling for veterans, students, and women.

      by Yellow Canary on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:10:15 AM PDT

•  love this news..

  hopefully this will all end on Tuesday...

  by maddercow on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:37:59 AM PDT

  •  Ya, right

    Ha, Ha, Ha. Hillary won't go away without a stake in her heart.

    by mndan on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:02:37 AM PDT

    •  Yup, why would she leave now

      She will stay in it until the convention, hoping for another Wright type of story.

      by maxxdogg on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:46:53 AM PDT

•  He's good for the future of our party.

  Glad to see party heads realizing it.

  by otheruser on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:38:41 AM PDT

  •  the DC establishment and elites support Obama

    assumed everyone knew....

    by katz5 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:28:16 AM PDT

  •  theyre just smart, we Cannot win without our base

    a huge part of which is AA's

    HRC continues being complicit with their swiftboating by the media

    "Crazy Black Man Wright" has/will become "Crazy Black Men" in our society

    We didn't need any more stereotypes

    Don't you think AA's understand what's going on when they see these loops of Wright.

    It's race-baiting, clear and simple, and it's literally jeapordizing our chances in the fall.

    The last thing we need right now is one of our candidates Depressing our voter turnout in the fall.

    Let's NOT disillusion the AA's, I'm pretty sure that's suicidal to our prospects in the fall.

    Sorry, I got off subject, but I think this is what they're thinking

    by erin r on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:50:12 AM PDT

•  After Hillary's attack on Congress

  Over the crappy gas tax idea I wouldn't be surprised if some congresspeople come out for Obama today.

  Is it not enough that she attacks Obama, but now she has to attack congress as well!

  Sorry a little off topic but we're going to see more of these.

  by Mikecan1978 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:39:31 AM PDT

  •  Hillary calls out Dems in congress

    for her gas tax gimmick....

    Those Dems in Congress should now call out Hillary for her increasingly Republican positions.

    Turn about is fair play.

    by crystal eyes on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:46:18 AM PDT

    •  Is it me?

      Or is she more and more like Bush every day?  

      Strongarm Congress, through the press, to get her way.  No consultation, no discussion, no facts or experts weighing in on her ideas -- but if it plays in the polls, let's ridicule anyone who doesn't go along with her.  On an idea universally called "stupid" by people who know about these things.

      It's interesting that the only bill she'd bother to go back to the Senate for is sponsored by Republicans.  The nerve of her to make it sound like the Democrats don't want gas price relief for consumers.  

      And the supers are waiting to endorse Obama --- why?  

      by 57andFemale on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:01:45 AM PDT

      •  The Lieberman disease

        Her McCain love is growing stronger every day.

        by crystal eyes on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:23:34 AM PDT

      •  She has become a sophist, running on fumes ...

        ... instead of principles, ensconced in the notion that if it smells good, people will buy it.

        Sad, really.  She had a sharp mind before she set it to the self-defeating task of whittling statues from turds.

        by Yellow Canary on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:14:31 AM PDT

      •  I told y'all ,,,,,,,

        No it's not just you.

         Way before anyone had declared him or herself a candidate for president, I posted a comment on here saying that "Hillary would be Bush in a pantsuit" ... that "the campaign season (which I never dreamed would be this long !! ) would be all about Hillary all the time".  And I was roundly chastised by my fellow denizens of Kos.

         I begged Hillary to put America first and put her ambitions aside.  Silly me.  But even I didn't, even in my wildest nightmares, realize how destructive she would be.  Destructive to America, destructive to the Democratic Party, destructive to Bill's legacy, and destructive to herself.

         The Bushies have done so much damage to our beloved country.  We needed someone very strong and very special to accomplish the Herculean task of pulling all of us together to pull America back from the brink.  It will be very hard, very hard, but I have faith that together we can do it, and we will do it.

         I am a lifelong student of history.  I find it amazing that when a good, strong, capable leader is desperately required, he appears, as if by divine intervention.  Barack Obama is just such a man. And if we, the citizens of The United States of American, all of us, can just unite, roll up our sleeves, and follow his lead, there is nothing we cannot do.

         Watching this looonnng primary season is like having a front row seat at the classic battle between good and evil. Despite all the slings and arrows (and kitchen sinks) being thrown by "politics as usual", with only a few more minutes left on the clock, good is ahead, and, despite being double-teamed, it looks like good is going to win.  Go America !!  

         

        by Lizzie Jane on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:07:23 AM PDT

  •  Congresscritters should not be surprised

    HRC is determined to get this nod, and she has no problem demeaning her congressional colleagues, just as she's done with black people, "San Francisco" people and latte-sipping elites.

    It's just another step in the process for her. Past time to short-circuit this scorched earth campaign.

    by CocoaLove on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:50:03 AM PDT

    •  Yes, we should all know the Clintons

      well enough by now. When this all started, I picked Hillary because as I told my wife, they don't run to lose. Remember the vow Bill took back after his first and only electoral loss, back in Arkansas? They do what it takes to win, period. Because when you win, all else falls away, the sins of the past, whatever. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Remember that lame movie Primary Colors? when the Bill Clinton character (was it John Ravolta?) says to the newbie staffer that if we'd been alive back when Lincoln was running (I'm paraphrasing) we'd be surprised to find that even Abe was a slimeball when it came to politics. I never forgot that bit of cynical "wisdom." Is that how they really see things?

      by EastCoast on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:40:59 AM PDT

      •  No, thats not exactly what they believe

        that's what they tell us to try to get us to stomach their throwing US and our Good, decent, honest politicians under the bus.

        the idea that the ends justifys the means relies on the assumption that the ends will be a worthy outcome.

        The AA's being swiftboated in our culture, the exploitation and even encouragement of racial tensions.

        No, their ends do Not justify their means.

        How could they undue the harm theyve already caused, they can't, they only lie and tell us it'll be worth it in the end, but instead we get stuff like Nafta and Doma, no healthcare and a Huge sex scandal that costs us the presidency for years,

        Those were the means last time

        Now, the stakes are so much higher

        Damnit, black people are f'ing Americans too, I cannot, will not EVER endorse or vote for race-baiting politicians

        by erin r on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:06:13 AM PDT

  •  Is there

    one group in our country she has not scorched? Blacks, gays, the poor, (but God blass the rich), Muslims, cookie baking homemakers, now her colleagues. That leaves, let's see...Chelsea.

    by anotherCt Dem on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:03:29 AM PDT

    •  Bill called us young voters naive

      I call him a sexual predator in response

      I'm sure if I was his intern he would just Love for me to be naive.

      by erin r on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:45:08 AM PDT

•  don't you mean "ABC's" ?

  otherwise good news all around.  The tide is turning.

  by daninoah on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:41:07 AM PDT

  •  no as a commenter said above its A BS network n/t

    by petercjack on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:05:24 AM PDT

•  Like the building of the pyramids..stone by